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Charge and discharge termination criterias

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Emp
 Emp
(@emp)
Active Member Customer

Hello!

 

Just ordered our second unit, we love your device! Our main problem with the software is the following:

 

We would like a checkbox next to each criteria for discharge and charge functions.

This is very useful for battery calibration, where SOC level is not matching RSOC. We could just disable SOC criteria and have termination based on cell voltages.

Also, currently minimum discharge cell voltage is set to 3000mv, please make it possible to discharge to 2800mv.

 

Thanks!

 

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 24/09/2020 11:01 am
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

Hello,

Actually, the termination based on cell voltage is limited/not working.

Could you please come with some examples ? SOC is actually RSOC, it is the parameter reported by Windows.

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 24/09/2020 4:48 pm
Emp
 Emp
(@emp)
Active Member Customer

@nex

By SOC i mean SOC parameter registered by the controller IC. RSOC as state of charged based on cell voltages.

Ok, so we have a lot of batteries that are stored for 1-2 years by clients.

Many of these batteries have wrong SOC level registered in the chip. Seems like mostly replacement batteries with chinise IC, when they go to sleep / long time storage, SOC will not update as the cells slowly discharge. For example I have about 10-15 units where SOC is 100%, but cell voltages are sitting at 3600mV each pair. With your device and the current software, charge terminates because of 100% SOC.

With my other devices, I can set it up so It will continute charging until a certain cell voltage level or I can set cut-off current / or cut-off pack voltage.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 25/09/2020 9:05 am
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

This is a safety protection mechanism. When a battery reports SOC=100% then it should not accept any charging current (charging FET disabled) and sets a fully charging alarm. If the battery does not disable the charging FET when SOC = 100% then something is bad inside the data flash (it could be the calibration). An option would be to Force charging as long as charging FET are not disabled even the SOC=100%, but in this case you trust that FET charging enabling/disabling mechanism works fine. Same for SOC=0%. I can do this but it is too dangerous in case there is a failure inside the chip.

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 25/09/2020 9:13 am
Emp
 Emp
(@emp)
Active Member Customer

@nex Yeah this is a calibration issue. I find these a lot with replacement Apple batteries. Also im sure these are not TI controllers, If you want I can take apart the next one I find with this problem and take a photo of the IC. We are a battery wholesale, I test a lof of batteries daily (returns or old used batteries that come in for service).

So far your machine has the best connectivity, our old machines does not read newer controllers. Even if they do, newer batteries have charge issue with our old gear, I think they start with CV and new batteries refuse that. So your way of raising voltage and current at the same time for starting is awesome. If works with everything the old machines couldnt do.

If you could add a force charge and force discharge option, I wouldnt need to use any other machine for my daily work.

We would also gladly buy a multi channel machine of this, if you ever make one! 

 

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Topic starter Posted : 25/09/2020 11:32 am
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

Apple batteries use in principle TI chips. I have’t found any other chip inside Apple batteries.

To charge a laptop battery is quite complex since the charging algorithms are different from brand to brand or even family to family for the same brand. Most of them do not respect the standard. After I managed to charge most of the batteries to about 90-95% I spent about 3 years for improving the NLBA charging. Now it is charging most batteries to 99-100%.

Is your secondary equipment able to charge batteries to 99-100% ?

If you need more devices I can make you a good offer and allocate time to implement stop condition based on cell voltage. I am currently working in Reseting the chips. With this feature the batteries can be repaired.

 

 

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 25/09/2020 6:00 pm
Emp
 Emp
(@emp)
Active Member Customer

OK, so here is an example for this: I have an Apple A1322 battery, that has bad calibration. Did auto calibrate with your software, multiple cycles of it, very small improvement on FCC.

During discharge, I get termination because 0% state reached, but all cells still have 3600mv. I need an update where I can set your software to ignore SOC, and discharge to the set cell voltage limit.

If you could make it a checkbox on each termination criteria before charge / discharge. This way I could select more of them If I want, or just one.

 

If you can implement this, we would buy 5 more devices right away, and some more later.

 

So now how I solve this currently, I connect to my DC load and my old tester at the same time, to track voltages. I could do it all with your device, with that update we talked about.

 https://imgur.com/DqU0bPK 

https://imgur.com/HDc2QYY

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 23/10/2020 9:39 am
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

@emp

Could you please contact me https://www.laptopu.ro/contact ?

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 23/10/2020 11:23 am
torture
(@torture)
Member Moderator

Please focus on this feature, because i dont like to say this but the NLBA is so far useless for calibrating chips. Most of the times after a chip reset the State Of Charge is reported wrong. So u need to discharge at least to 3.0v and then charge to 100% to calibrate the chip.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/11/2020 7:28 pm
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

Feature implemented in firmware V1.13.

Thanks for the suggestion.

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 19/04/2021 7:22 pm
ralph
(@ralph)
Eminent Member

Relating to the calibration tab.. 

I would like to make a suggestion for a dynamic temperature gauge (not just temperature cut-off) on the calibration page. Even better would be a (small) graph of temperature vs. time and the effective resistance of the batteries (instantaneous) during full charge and discharge. Given that I'm working with pretty old batteries it would be nice to know if anything is getting too hot during a full cycle. 

Also related to discharge and charge voltages. Can any of you guys please explain why the default discharge (2000mV) and charge (3000mV) voltages are different? Is there a specific reason for this? 

As always: thank you! 

Ralph 

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Posted : 25/06/2021 5:15 pm
torture
(@torture)
Member Moderator
Posted by: @ralph

Also related to discharge and charge voltages. Can any of you guys please explain why the default discharge (2000mV) and charge (3000mV) voltages are different? Is there a specific reason for this? 

I don't really understand what you mean? Where do you see these charge and discharge voltages (2000mv) & (3000mv). Can you please post a screenshot pointing to these values?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/06/2021 6:28 pm
ralph
(@ralph)
Eminent Member

@torture 

OOOOOPS sorry! my bad. I mean *current* please see attached. There are default settings for max/min voltage too, but that's not what I am talking about. 

Ralph

 max I autocycle
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Posted : 25/06/2021 6:40 pm
torture
(@torture)
Member Moderator

Ok i get it now. 🙂 These 2 setting are absoluely user controlled. They are just set like this (default software) Max Charging Current is 3000mA because this is the maximum charging current that NLBA can provide. Basically i never change this value because even if you leave it at 3000mA but the battery request 1000mA current, NLBA will automatically adjust to the request and will provide only 1000mA because this is the maximum that the battery wants! And if the battery request for exmaple 4000-5000mA current  or more, NLBA will provide 3000mA only because this is it's limit. 

Discharging current is the setting that is more often controlled by users and it is also 3000mA maximum but is set at 2000mA because this the more or less average power consumption of a laptop. If it's a big battery and you wan to discharge it faster or to do cells stress test you will choose the maximum current 3000mA. If it's a small battery you will choose 1000-2000mA because otherwise cells might heat up and also the State Of Charge readings might be wrong because of the big voltage drop.

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Posted : 25/06/2021 7:08 pm
ralph liked
ralph
(@ralph)
Eminent Member

that’s very clear. Thank you 

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Posted : 25/06/2021 8:20 pm
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