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Calibration Battery Timer Reset

C2SDK
(@c2sdk)
Active Member Customer

On two consecutive days I ran calibrations on the same four Lenovo 45n1160 batteries whose individual cell resistance was in the green at 39 to41 on three of them. The fourth battery the cells were in the yellow.

 

On the first day, the charge setting was adjusted from 5 minutes to 1 minute. The calibration completion times ranged from just over 1 hour to between 4 and 5 hours. Part 1 of 2

 

 

On the second day, settings of charge were returned to the default of 100% and the relax times returned to 5 minutes. The calibration result was calibrations exceeding over 19 hours? Part 2 of 2 

 

In part 2 of the video you can see when the charge reached 99% the Instant current ranged from negative numbers to as much as 1500 mA for over two hours until I terminated the calibration.

 

Question is what are we changing if we charge battery to 99% to prevent the calibration process from lasting as much as 19 hours? And this with the cell resistances well within the green category. These are NOT the only batteries that this situation (process)has taken 19 hours.

Thank you. 

 

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 13/01/2021 7:07 pm
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

I can confirm that the behavior is absolutely normal in all your cases and I will explain to you why.

First of all, Relaxing before discharging and Relaxing before charging are just fixed values for relaxing the cells before the next step (charging/discharging). These two values are constants measured in minutes which will just increase the total calibration time by summing both of them. If you set both to 1min then the laptop battery calibration will last longer by 2 or 3 minutes (depending on SOC level) if there is 1 autocycle set. So, these two parameters could be ignored since they are quite small. 

Laptop batteries have a chip (microcontroller) inside that runs complex firmware. It is impossible to compare the behaviour of 2 batteries even they have the same part number, the same chip inside and the same firmware version. For example, BQ8030 Sanyo chip which is inside of your batteries (supposing they are genuine) has a data flash (let's say EEPROM) of 2048 bytes, depending on the size of parameters, I expect about 500-1000 parameters which could be dynamically changed for each charging/discharging cycle. NLBA device does not control the charging/discharging of the cells directly. NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer charges and discharges the laptop batteries according to their firmware requirements. You can see in your videos that there is a battery SoC=99% with -15mA for a good time then bam, charging current appears. It is normal behaviour, this is how the chip wants to be charged. If the chip opens the charging FET then NLBA can generate as much voltage as possible because the current drain will be 0mA. So, the chip and the firmware do complex analysis and then inform NLBA how to charge the battery.

Some firmwares can charge the cells faster while some firmwares chage the cells smaller. NLBA cannot control the charging algorithm, it talks to the chip then charge it according to its needs. Some firmwares (I have frequently seen in case of Sanyo) charge the battery faster to about SoC = 90%-95% then change the battery in pulses. It could take hours to charge just a few percentages. It can take hours to charge from 99% to 100%, probably you have seen this behavior in the laptop too.

The Maximum Charging Current you configure during Charging or Calibration it is the maximum allowed charging used by NLBA to charge the battery. But, if the battery requires charging with a small current then NLBA will do it accordingly otherwise the battery chip will suspend charging or even lock the battery. You can set Maximum Charging Current = 3000mA and to see that the instant current is about 200mA, absolutely normal because this is how the firmware asks to charge the battery.

Laptop battery SOC (State of Charge) is a parameter which is computed by the laptop battery firmware. If the battery is not calibrated then the SOC does not reflect the current state of the cells. For example, you can have SoC=99% but the real current state of charge of batteries could be 30%. That's why some batteries need a lot of time to charge from 99% to 100%. It is just one reason but there are more.

Laptop batteries are complex, very complex, NLBA is a complex device too, but understanding how a firmware works in principle then testing process could be really good.

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 14/01/2021 9:31 am
Mal
 Mal
(@lszynkam)
Eminent Member Customer
Posted by: @azzido

The Maximum Charging Current you configure during Charging or Calibration it is the maximum allowed charging used by NLBA to charge the battery. But, if the battery requires charging with a small current then NLBA will do it accordingly otherwise the battery chip will suspend charging or even lock the battery. You can set Maximum Charging Current = 3000mA and to see that the instant current is about 200mA, absolutely normal because this is how the firmware asks to charge the battery.

Hi.

I hope this is good topic to post this on. 

That means my NLBA1 should not go over 3amp if it is set to this. 

2021 09 13

This happens with mine and i seen it happening with few battery models. 

This fluctuate from 2.9 Amp to over 3.2Amp. Changing in around 1s to different current.

Dose it mean that there is a fault with the battery chip programming, cells themselves or is it the NLBA1 device as it goes over Maximum charging current?

Everything else is working just fine. 

Best regards 

Lets fix it!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/09/2021 3:43 pm
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

@lszynkam 

attach a picture with all parameters from first tab too.

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 13/09/2021 3:58 pm
Mal
 Mal
(@lszynkam)
Eminent Member Customer
Posted by: @azzido

attach a picture with all parameters from first tab too.

HERE IT IS 

2021 09 13 (1)

Lets fix it!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/09/2021 6:03 pm
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

@lszynkam 

The NLBA1 device has a built-in Smart Battery Charger which means it charges the battery according to the several parameters sent by the battery chip. More, it has an advanced algorithm to force charging as many as possible batteries until the Fully Charge bit is set. Even the laptop batteries have to implement and respect the SBS standard, many of them don't. The most difficult part is near Fully Charge, some laptop batteries have a kind of pulse charging, some of them report Terminate Charge Alarm for a few seconds/minutes, some of them have standard constant voltage and so on. NLBA1 device has to deal with all of them. The current will always be adjusted based on many parameters.

I see no problem in changing the current from 2900mA to 3200mA and vice-versa. You cannot expect 3000mA. The PID also receives the 3000mA as the maximum limit but as most regulators, there is a hysteresis in the regulation. More, if the firmware decides to deactivate the charging FET for 1 second (due to the pulse charging algorithm) then the current is reduced, the PID regulator increases the voltage to reach the target current but in the next second the FET gets activated. What is then happening ? a current spike will appear with the period proportional to the PID feedback speed.

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 13/09/2021 7:53 pm
Mal
 Mal
(@lszynkam)
Eminent Member Customer

Thankyou for your time.

This is why I decided to write this

Posted by: @lszynkam

Changing in around 1s to different current

As expected but much more in depth. Better be sure than sorry.

Best regards 

Lets fix it!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/09/2021 8:21 pm
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin
Posted by: @lszynkam
Posted by: @lszynkam

Changing in around 1s to different current

What is the issue ?

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/09/2021 8:34 pm
Mal
 Mal
(@lszynkam)
Eminent Member Customer

there is no issue. 

Lets fix it!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/09/2021 8:51 pm
batFix
(@batfix)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @lszynkam

HERE IT IS 

2021 09 13 (1)

Mal, really - pressing ALT before taking screenshot will cut 2/3 of unnecessary visual noise - we don't need view your desktop wallpaper nor your icons with shortcuts each time.  Concentrating on the program's view is good thing.

Untitled

Compare above, check how people posting such screenshots here. Be friendly to poor people who use small screens.

Lets Make NLBA Great ! Together.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/09/2021 1:57 pm
Mal
 Mal
(@lszynkam)
Eminent Member Customer

Hi

To show my friendliness I decided to put things right once and for all. 

Block me from forum, delete my account, give me warning whatever you wish but I cant stand this constant misrepresentations of facts!

batFix keeps writing about print screen function in windows

Posted by: @batfix

pressing ALT before taking screenshot will cut 2/3 of unnecessary visual noise

he calls it here screenshot what is another name for print screen function.

Posted by: @batfix

taking screenshot

Means

Using the PRINT SCREEN key

Pressing PRINT SCREEN captures an image of your entire screen and copies it to the Clipboard in your computer's memory. You can then paste (CTRL+V) the image into a document, email message, or other file, like paint, then you edit it so in this case I would have to cut everything off from all sides and leave the software window only. Next I would have to save it as .JPG only only then I would be done.

batFix uses term print screen inappropriately and if he wants to give a real advice to someone about taking a print screen of an active window in windows then he should not say 

Posted by: @batfix

pressing ALT before taking screenshot will cut 2/3 of unnecessary visual noise

This is not true. Why? I will explain bellow.

You probably still think it is! That's fine! Bear with me!

So let me explain the real name for action he wants people to do and what conditions have to be fulfilled in order to do it.

Active window print screen function as this is what he should ask people to do, not to do a print screen and points to Alt + Print screen what is in fact Active window print screen.

Alt + Print Screen

To take a quick screenshot of the active window, use the keyboard shortcut Alt + PrtScn. This will snap your currently active window and copy the screenshot to the clipboard. You'll need to open the shot in an image editor to save it as described above in print screen function.

PLEASE NOTICE THAT THIS IS TAKING A PRINT SCREEN OF AN ACTIVE WINDOW SO YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT BEFORE YOU PRESS ALT+PRINT SCREEN BUTTON, YOU NEED TO FIRST PRESS ON A NLBA DEVICE SOFTWARE AND MAKE IT ACTIVE WINDOW. IF YOU DON'T, THIS FUNCTION OF ALT+PRINT SCREEN WILL STILL DO A PRINT SCREEN OF A ENTIRE PULPIT, OR WHATEVER OTHER WINDOW IS SELECTED AS ACTIVE! 

THIS IS WHY IT HAS A COMPLEATLY SEPERATE AND DIFERENT NAME FROM WHAT BATFIX IS USING "SCREEN SHOT OR PRINT SCREEN" AND HE SHOULD BE ASKING PEOPLE TO DO 

Active window print screen WHEN POINTING TO ALT + PRINT SCREEN AND EXPLAIN THAT THE SOFTWARE SHOULD BE SELECTED.

This still involves allot of steps to save it as it is only in your clipboard. 

I truly hope you understand the deference and why when you talk in any language it is important to use correct words and name things and actions appropriately. 

There is much faster way and easier way to do a Active window print screen that do not involve opening Paint or any other software.

Every user of current windows has a folder (UserName should be changed to your user name)

C:\Users\UserName\Pictures\Screenshots

or 

C:\Users\UserName\OneDrive\Pictures\Screenshots

when taking the Active window print screen make sure you select the window you need a print screen of. 

Then press

Windows logo key +Alt key+ Print Screen key

this will automatically save it to your Screenshots folder as picture file! 

(in some windows version with xbox this will save automatic copy in following folder C:\Users\UserName\Videos\Captures)

No Need of messing about with additional software at all!

No need for the current addition to NBLA software! Although it is much appreciated! 

NOW IF YOUR PRINT SCREEN IS NOT A MAIN BUTTON BUT A FUNCTION BUTTON CALLED FN THEN JUST LIKE I HAVE!

FN key +Alt key+ Print Screen key

this will automatically save it to your Screenshots folder as picture file!

If you have no Print screen button at all as some keyboards don't have it then 

FN key + Windows logo key + Space Bar key

This will not save your file automatically and you will need to process it with Paint or other software!

Hope you will understand how wrong you are by using wrong name of a function and not stating important steps!

If you think that someone don't know how to take active window screenshot and you want to be helpful make sure you know what you writing, use correct name and tell them all steps!

I waited with this reply as I did not wanted to get in to arguments anymore as how many times one can prove that they are wright!

Hope it helps you help others but this time the wright way!

Like always my best regards 

Mal

Lets fix it!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/09/2021 2:50 pm
batFix
(@batfix)
Reputable Member

That's good to know...

A couple no: Win10 Home have no such folder for screenshots (perhaps you have different version or did install something or xbox did help here) - so not everyone have such advantage - discarded;

as SW developer I could tell people about "a window in focus", but you probably do not care about difference between active and be in focus.

 

To be short - [Fn+] ALT+PrtScrn is the way to share relevant info/data here. Take care.

 

Lets Make NLBA Great ! Together.

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Posted : 15/09/2021 4:06 pm
DjiBattWorkshop
(@djibattworkshop)
Member Moderator

@Batfix has asked you to paste relevant NLBA window instead of full desktop with unrelevalt graphics. Instead you developing theory what PRINTSCREEN terms means and which key strokes should be done to take it.

Posted by: @lszynkam

There is much faster way and easier way to do a Active window print screen that do not involve opening Paint or any other software

If you know another "much easier" method why you continue posting full desktop snapshots?

Could you explain how did you managed to make proper snapshots in this post?

https://www.laptopu.ro/community/postid/4309/

And why in this thread you returned back to full desktop captures?

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/09/2021 4:13 pm
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

Starting with V3.5.0 there is a dedicated button to take a screenshot exactly for the NLBA1 SW application.

For this feature I want to thank to @batfix because he recommended it.

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

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Posted : 16/09/2021 8:06 am
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