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Recelling a 18650 based battery pack

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Kevin
(@kevin)
Estimable Member Customer

Hi

What precautions are to be taken (apart from welding batteries with the correct polarity and use cells with the correct chemistry) and what parameters in firmware/EEPROM need to be changed when re-celling a battery pack completely so that it becomes fully functional and without any danger of overcharging/discharging?

 

I am asking this question because I am planning to buy 100 off "Murata Sony VTC5A" or "Samsung INR18650-25R" Li-ion cells and was wondering if these are suitable to repair all sorts of laptop battery packs based on Li-ion 18650 cells. This is assuming that the BMS system parameters are changed/updated or course!

 

Thanks,

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 30/08/2021 7:32 pm
torture
(@torture)
Member Moderator

Both type of cells that you have chosen are high drain current 20-25amps. Typically they are used for cordless drills, impact wrenches, hammer drills etc where a lot a current is required.

They will work in a laptop battery just fine but they will not be very practical for 2 reasons.

1. High drain 18650 cells are more expensive than regular 4-5amp ones typically used in laptops.

2. In order for them to deliver the full capacity they have to be discharged to 2.7-2.5v and no laptop battery PCB will allow this.

 

Dataflash editing will be mandatory in all cases if you are planning to use them. And without proper hardware, sofware and knowledge it will be mission impossible for you.

There are a few tutorials in the forum i suggest that you read the trough to get familiar with the process.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 30/08/2021 8:43 pm
Kevin liked
Kevin
(@kevin)
Estimable Member Customer
Posted by: @torture

Both type of cells that you have chosen are high drain current 20-25amps. Typically they are used for cordless drills, impact wrenches, hammer drills etc where a lot a current is required.

They will work in a laptop battery just fine but they will not be very practical for 2 reasons.

1. High drain 18650 cells are more expensive than regular 4-5amp ones typically used in laptops.

2. In order for them to deliver the full capacity they have to be discharged to 2.7-2.5v and no laptop battery PCB will allow this.

 

Dataflash editing will be mandatory in all cases if you are planning to use them. And without proper hardware, sofware and knowledge it will be mission impossible for you.

There are a few tutorials in the forum i suggest that you read the trough to get familiar with the process.

 

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation. 

 

I will most probably replace with the original types or direct equivalent.

Is there a way to know which cells are installed in the battery without opening the battery pack? I read somewhere that TI devices have chemistry IDs for each battery type. Is this true ?

 

Thanks

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 31/08/2021 2:51 pm
DjiBattWorkshop
(@djibattworkshop)
Member Moderator
Posted by: @kevin

Is there a way to know which cells are installed in the battery without opening the battery pack? I read somewhere that TI devices have chemistry IDs for each battery type. Is this true ?

Your question is answered here.

https://www.laptopu.ro/community/postid/3927/

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31/08/2021 3:01 pm
Kevin liked
Kevin
(@kevin)
Estimable Member Customer
Posted by: @djibattworkshop
Posted by: @kevin

Is there a way to know which cells are installed in the battery without opening the battery pack? I read somewhere that TI devices have chemistry IDs for each battery type. Is this true ?

Your question is answered here.

https://www.laptopu.ro/community/postid/3927/

 

"The batteries based on Texas Instruments Fuel Gauges with Impedance Tracking algorithm have special opCode known as "Chemistry Id" which will return TI reference number of used cells. Its like a cells fingerprint.

Basing on that number you could find type and characteristics of the cells in TI database even without opening battery casing.

The opCode only applicable for chips which have "z" letter in their name.

bq20zXXX

WW 00 0006

RW 00

bq30zXXX

WW 00 0006

RBL 23

bq40zXXX

WBL 44 0600

RBL 44"

How about on BQ304xx ?

 

Thanks

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 31/08/2021 3:21 pm
torture
(@torture)
Member Moderator

No way to know there. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31/08/2021 3:45 pm
DjiBattWorkshop
(@djibattworkshop)
Member Moderator
Posted by: @kevin

How about on BQ304xx ?

Only physical inspection of the cells.

But some useful information could be found analyzing battery label and some SBS parameters like Manufacture Name, Design Voltage, Capacity and Charging Voltage.

For example, if battery label states

"Cells made in Korea, Pack assembled in China"

and Sbs report shows

 Manuf Name SMP SDI-2.8

 Design Capacity 5600mAh

 Charging Voltage 13050mV

There will be Samsung 4.35 LiHV 2800mAh cells inside like SDI ICR18650-28A for example.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31/08/2021 4:01 pm
Kevin liked
Kevin
(@kevin)
Estimable Member Customer

@djibattworkshop Thanks 🙂

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 31/08/2021 4:04 pm
Nicusor
(@azzido)
Member Admin

@djibattworkshop

@torture

What kind of cells do you use for recelling ? People want to see how experts proceed in practice.

NLBA Laptop Battery Analyzer with Chip Reset & Repair Option

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/09/2021 8:58 pm
DjiBattWorkshop
(@djibattworkshop)
Member Moderator
Posted by: @azzido

What kind of cells do you use for recelling ?

Depending on customers wallets)

If they ready to pay 70% of new genuine battery, they will get branded cells from Samsung, LGC or Sanyo, even with larger capacity then initially installed by factory.

For others who wants to minimize expenses down to 50% Liittokala or used Tesla Model S (industrial Panasonic) cells are applied.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/09/2021 9:18 pm
Kevin and torture liked
torture
(@torture)
Member Moderator
Posted by: @djibattworkshop

Depending on customers wallets

Yes exactly! 

Here is one example from me i always offer 3 options for a battery recceling.

1. Branded cells from the top 5 Sanyo, Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic the recelled battery by me will still cost around 60-70% of the price of a brand new genuine baterry and will have absolutely the same quality and performance as genuine. Customizable capacity according to customer needs and requests also posible. 1 year full warranty for a battery with branded cells.

2. Acceptable quality china made cells the battery will cost 50-60% of the price of a china REPLACEMENT battery recommended only for cutomers on a tight budged. Only 6 months warranty.

3. Recelling with USED Good quality BRAND cells the battery will cost 30-40% of the price of a china REPLACEMENT battery. Only 1 month warranty.

Some people want quality, some poeople don't really care, they just want the battery as a backup source of power in case of short blackouts so they don't loose data etc.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/09/2021 10:04 pm
Kevin
(@kevin)
Estimable Member Customer

@djibattworkshop 

@torture

What type of genuine cells (model numbers) do you usually stock?

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 02/09/2021 4:17 am
DjiBattWorkshop
(@djibattworkshop)
Member Moderator

Samsung ICR18650-26J

Samsung INR18650-30Q

Samsung ICR18650-28A, 30A (HV)

LGC ICR18650-E1 (HV)

Sanyo UR18650ZM2

Sanyo UR18650ZT (HV)

Panasonic NCR18650B

 

All cells are of unprotected type.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/09/2021 8:47 am
torture and Kevin liked
torture
(@torture)
Member Moderator

My stock is almost the same.

I also have SANYO UR18650AA & Samsung INR18650-22F for customers who want balance between good quality and lower repair price because of reduced cell capacity.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/09/2021 2:17 pm
Kevin liked
Kevin
(@kevin)
Estimable Member Customer

Thanks for all the information.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 03/09/2021 11:44 am
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